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Total Attorneys

edited August 2013 in Legal Marketing
Does anyone have experience using Total Attorneys for PI leads?  Is it worth it?
Post edited by samglover on
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Comments

  • samgloversamglover Minneapolis, MN Admin
    I can't speak from personal experience, but I recall hearing that Max Gardner, a very prominent bankruptcy lawyer, uses Total Attorneys as his primary lead generation method. That's enough to make me interested, at least.
  • I used Total Attorneys for my bankruptcy practice for six months to give it a good try.  According to my partner, Total Attorneys should be called Total Practice Killers.  Each lead was $72 and usually led nowhere.  We would spend so much time following up on the leads, it would take away from other things and we did not make back the money we put in.  Total Attorneys could have improved their system to ensure that the lead you were following up on was actually alive and interested in filing bankruptcy.  If you have tons of money to blow, go right ahead and try it.
  • I just googled “Max Gardner” and “Total attorneys” and it seems that he was previously paid counsel for total attorneys for several years (but not since 2010).  He does have “total attorneys” as his web developer, so he no doubt uses them.

     

    I have followed a conversation on a LinkedIn bankruptcy group regarding another referral company.  Total attorneys was brought up, as well as a couple others.  My take-away is that these pay-per-leads do not yield paying clients and are expensive.
  • samgloversamglover Minneapolis, MN Admin
    Disclaimer: Total Attorneys is advertising with Lawyerist again, and I generally like the people I've met from the company. Disregard my comments if you think that makes me impartial. It probably does, although not necessarily more favorable.

    I don't think $72 per lead is necessarily expensive if it is a quality lead. If you make $1,000–1,500 per bankruptcy, that's a pretty minimal investment, even if it takes two or three leads to get a case.

    That's a big if, of course. If all you get is poor referrals, it's not worth it.

    Max is a bit of a special case. It's hard to know whether his bankruptcy cases are the source of his profits, or whether he makes his money on his high-priced seminars, or both. My understanding from a year or two ago, however, is that Total Attorneys is the only marketing he does for his bankruptcy practice. That may have changed, but on bankruptcy cases, Max doesn't make his money from filing bankruptcy; he makes it from suing creditors for violating various consumer protection laws. That may play into why he gets more out of TA than some.

    Anyway, back to pricing. $72 per lead is probably pretty cheap, when you consider the alternatives. How much time and money do you spend networking, blogging, Facebooking, tweeting, SEOing, etc., to get clients? I'll bet it makes $72 per lead look at a bargain.

    I'm not saying this to persuade you to adopt TA, but to encourage you to consider the true cost of any lead you may get.
  • My disclaimer: I don't know anything about Total Attorneys or any of these other lead-referral groups aside from some web postings about them.  And I guess it is human nature for people to post the negative, and not the positive (and maybe even guard the positive for themselves).

    I DO feel inundated by all of the SEO companies, all of the lead-referral companies, all of the marketers, "authoritative" directories, etc.

    If you want an internet backlink here, it is $20 or $200.  One directory site I found lists every attorney as a mesothelioma attorney and you have to pay them $20 to get your specialty changed. There is just too much out there that no one company has the market cornered.  And I feel like I am getting scammed and/or nickel-and-dimed and I now doubt the credibility of anyone in that field.  So $300 for ABC Internet Company is just one piece of the puzzle, you also need to spend monthly advertising money here, there and over-there.

    At the end of the day, nothing is as cheap as expected, it all adds up rather fast and of course each sales person is working for "THE best company."  

    In today's world, I feel that if you aren't employed as a lawyer, you probably then work for an internet or marketing company.   

    Personally, I'd rather spend the $72 with another attorney or professional over lunch, golf or a drink.  It probably pans out to the same number of paying referrals and is hecka of a lot more fun.  :)

    (Sorry for my rant, which went a bit off-topic, but I feel much better now, thank you)
  • samgloversamglover Minneapolis, MN Admin
    I think your last point is exactly right. You decide where to spend your marketing money. It doesn't have to go to an internet marketer (many of which aren't worth a dime) if that isn't the best option for you.

    Internet marketing absolutely works, but while a good website is necessary, you can get plenty of clients without doing anything else online.
  • I sadly tried Total Attorneys.  

     

    i received a number of email leads- each had a fake email address.  The telephone numbers were generally bogus (I practice family law-i would not leave a message on a home answering machine where a man and women are identified).  Though they supposedly screened for ability to pay, the only prospect i actually spoke to was indigent.

    From more than 20 "leads"  All my emails were returned and  i had less than 3 actual conversations, no consultations and was not retained in a single matter.     
  • Yes; I had a similar experience.  It sounds like $72 is not a lot of money when you usually get $1,500 per case, but a lot of these people don't show up for their appointment, don't hire, and aren't interested in filing.  You still have to pay!  Tomorrow is my last day with Total Attorneys and I can hardly wait to stop wasting my money!
  • I signed a 90 days contract with Total Attorneys and i thought it was going rather well. I figured if i talk to 10 people and i convert 1 for $5k then it is all good. The rub: they sent me approximately 10 leads over a few days. I called the people- no answer, i emailed the people who did not put none@none.com for an email address and got no answer. Problem: i am paying for an email. I called the account manager and she basically tells me if they email me the information i have to pay even though no one is answering the phone. I tell her that i dont see the logic in that. If i never get a chance to convert, why am i paying for the it. She tries to convince me that if i convert just one then it pays for itself. However, the point is for it to be profitable for me not for Total Attorneys. I dont see how it is a good use of my shallow pot of marketing money to pay for an email. I am out after the 90 days.

    Second issue, you cant dispute the leads until the end of the month for a three day period. That is difficult. I am busy, i have lots of things to do. That is something that could be easily forgotten since they draft you automatically.

    Bottom line: i liked the concept, quality assurance would be good and not paying for an email would be great.
  • John Newman said
     

    Personally, I'd rather spend the $72 with another attorney or professional over lunch, golf or a drink.  It probably pans out to the same number of paying referrals and is hecka of a lot more fun.  :)

    This has been key to me as well.  It seems to me that other attorneys are really the effective target audience for client generation.  Know your stuff, be enthusiastic about it, and friends of friends will start referring cases to you.  (Last month alone a friend of a friend of a friend referred me ~10k in cases, cost: Lunch and a thank you basket).
  • I tried Total Attorneys for a reduced fee of $52 per lead. So far, I've had 3 inquiries, 2 of which had nothing to do with a PI case and the 3rd barely touched PI. So, for me, so far not so good.
  • Hi Guys,

     

    This is my first post, I feel like I am the bad guy here. I run a small start up lead generation company in Minnesota. Sam, is actually my attorney (Full Disclosure right.) We do PI, Divorce and Criminal lead generation in Minnesota currently with plans to expand beyond those practices as we grow. We are providing real leads, our prices are much higher than what I have seen quoted in this thread. On the other hand, we don't charge you for "Mickey Mouse" leads, leads that have false phone numbers, names or e-mail addresses. We have a dispute policy that allows you to dispute your leads in real time, and then have them credited back to you. 

     

    In my past experience at law firms, I never had the opportunity to work directly with Total Attorneys, although I did work with other lead generation firms. Each was different, and quality varied. Find what works for your firm.

     

    If you're in Minnesota and interested in lead generation for PI, Divorce or DUI. Please contact me, hopefully I can change your mind about our industry.

     

    James
  • Total Attorneys is essentially a scam.  I just finished the 90 day PI trial and was hugely disappointed.  About one third of the leads are not looking for an attorney, another third are workers comp or social security disability claimants, and the other third are medical malpractice callers whose cases were previously turned down by other lawyers.  Prior to signing up, Total Attorney's sales rep sent me e-mails assuring my subscription was straight personal injury, and that they did not market for med mal or workers comp cases.  It was a flat out lie.  In 3 months I didn't receive a single auto accident or premises liability lead.  I refused to pay the final invoice and Total Attorneys didn't pursue it.  Their business model seems to center on false promises to induce a high volume of "trial" subscriptions.  I would expect Total Attorneys to get sued for deceptive advertising or fraud sometime soon, if they haven't already.      


  • JaredRJaredR Las Vegas

    I just had a very disturbing experience with total attorneys. Based on their advertisement and the sample landing pages I have seen, I thought every lead was actually looking for an attorney. This is the email I got back from one of my "leads"...

    "Hi Matthew! ! Thank you for your call, but i didn't request any help I just filled out a application for free coupons on line and one question was if I have any debts and I said yes. Thank you but this are regular debts"

    Needless to say I am in the process of canceling my subscription. Total Attorneys seems to be a joke.

  • I see most of these posts are from 2012. Are things still bad with total attorney? I read their marketing page, and it seems like they are addressing a lot of these issues, so I am assuming they got a lot of complaints. If there are this many people claiming misrepresentation of their service, or false advertising...

  • I also had a very poor experience with Total Attorneys...

  • I used them in 2014 I believe and it was not worth a penny and I paid a lot more than a penny.

  • GARRYGARRY CHICAGO
    edited February 2016 via Email
    Bad outfit that's for sure.

    Please don't sign your posts. —Mod.
    Post edited by samglover on
  • FFreitagFFreitag Pittsburgh, PA

    Yes, Total Attorneys in my opinion is a complete waste of time and money. Their leads are terrible, not verified whatsoever, bad telephone numbers and emails.

    I would recommend staying "far, far away" from them - don't waste your time nor money.

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